i got mine from Bauhaus, i think it cost around 2€. simple transparent silicone for sanitary use.

something i just discovered though: you can see the structure of the siliconebumps clearly when held in the light of a projector.
i’ll try it with just 2 layers. are there similar problems with rosco?

hey First I want to tell you that that I am making the table with the FTIR technique ,but the Main problem with the Silicon rubber
I purchase the SILICON SEALANT and THINNER now going to taste on the Tracing paper but I want to know that will it take 15-18 hours for prepare is it right or not

Hi, I’m a little new here, but I’ve been building my table for awhile. I’m attempting to use the textured silicone method on Rosco grey for my complaint surface.

I’m using GE Silicone I - Clear (Silicone II is the premium version, which is better on porous surfaces and not needed if applying on Rosco.)

With regards to thinning the silicone, I had a lot of trouble finding Xylol like others here (I checked many major home hardware retailers).  So I called Momentive Performance Materials, which is the company that develops the GE Silicones, and asked what they recommend for thinning silicone. They said to use either mineral spirits or turpentine. (Since turpentine was readily available, I just went out and bought that!)

I used Tinkerman’s ratio of 1:1 with turpentine-to-silicone. It worked very well, and dried enough in 1 hour for me to reapply layers. After 3 layers on Rosco, left it to dry overnight, and tested it out:

Results:
- Creates brighter blobs than in the case of not-thinning the silicone (I rolled silicone straight onto Rosco before: Worked, but not well at all). However, the blobs are still quite dim with light pressure.

I suspect that thinning the silicone more may improve the results (perhaps a ratio 3:2 of turpentine:silicone, maybe even 3:1), as well as possible applying a few more layers to compensate for the thinner silicone (total of maybe 5-6). I’ll reply to see how it goes.

Hello all,

I’ve been experimenting with Tinkermans layering method, however my tracing paper gets really sticky with the silicone layer.
I’m using an 1:1 ratio ‘transparent silicone’ mixed with ‘thinner’ (contains xylene), but when it dried it got sticky. Putting the paper on my acrylic plate, the FTIR effect is set off when I touch the paper, but it never ‘releases’ due to the sticky silicone.

Although I tried it several times with new paper and mixed silicone, my problem still exists.

What am I doing wrong? Any hints?

I experienced that sticky silicone issue, too. In my case, it went away after about a week of drying (seems like the silicone was still curing).

Also, I got more consistent results by applying a texture, according to this technique (textured silicone on vellum).

In fact, I mixed both techniques, rolling on the first pass, and rolling + texturing on the second. The texturing seems to help eliminating the sticky effect.

EDIT: also, you might wanna try different silicone brands, textures and thinners (acrylic paint thinners worked well for me).

i don’t have any of the problems mentioned above, i’m using rosco + rolled on layer(s) of pure silicone. but compared to 3 layers of rolled-on silicon on normal paper the rosco creates really weak blobs. any hints/ideas?

Cyppher - 03 November 2008 04:09 AM

Hello all,

I’ve been experimenting with Tinkermans layering method, however my tracing paper gets really sticky with the silicone layer.
I’m using an 1:1 ratio ‘transparent silicone’ mixed with ‘thinner’ (contains xylene), but when it dried it got sticky. Putting the paper on my acrylic plate, the FTIR effect is set off when I touch the paper, but it never ‘releases’ due to the sticky silicone.

Although I tried it several times with new paper and mixed silicone, my problem still exists.

What am I doing wrong? Any hints?

You may be using a low oder or off brand silicone. We had similar issues using DAP silicone. Our surface was flat with no texture and remained sticky for days.
You need to purchase GE Silicone II that will solve your issue.

i don’t have any of the problems mentioned above, i’m using rosco + rolled on layer(s) of pure silicone. but compared to 3 layers of rolled-on silicon on normal paper the rosco creates really weak blobs. any hints/ideas?

you should try to add one more silicone layer

didn’t quit work. guess i’ll have to fgure out some other way to improve the blobs brightness. someone tryed adding a teflon or ptfe-layer?

Tinkerman - 06 July 2008 07:53 PM

I’m pleased that my technique for applying textured silicone to vellum is working for the people who have tried it.
Cheers!

In the interest of making this even easier, I’ve improved on the technique to apply the silicone.

I now thin it with Zylol at a 1:1 ratio, mix well, and pour it onto the vellum. Here’s the cool part that makes it easy-peasy.
I roll it out over the surface with a foam rubber paint roller like the ones they have at hardware stores.
The texture produced is micro-bumps on the surface. I applied two coats, and now the silicone layer is about half the thickness of the squeegie/fabric technique!

It produces blobs with a light touch, but it still needs a few more coats to be as sensative as the squeegie style sheet.  With this technique of application, it’s even easier to get a good, even coat of silicone onto the vellum so building it up in several layers is not so hard to do. It just takes a little wait time between coats. I waited an hour on the first one. It felt like it was cured up pretty well after 30 minutes, but I gave it another 30 minutes to be sure it wouldn’t lift.

I think I’ll make more and do about 5 or 6 coats.

Here’s a how-to video I made:



You can clean the roller pretty easily with the zylol and a rag. Just get the roller wetted out with the zylol, then roll out the excess onto the rag. Dispose of the rag in a fireproof container or hang it to dry. NEVER put solvent soaked rags in the trash. They can self ignite.

Have fun rollin the silicone!

Hello, I’m Juan Francisco. I’m new in FTIR. I’ve seen your technic and I’m fascinated. I’ve got only a question. Why do you aply the silicon layer onto an paper? Won’t you aply it onto the plexiglass?

Thank you very much, you are really a thinkerman.

Sorry my bad English

in our setup we used something similar, our compliant surface didn’t cost much although hats off to the method. Fish tank silicone + XP toluene--> stirring for 20 mins and rolling over Tracing paper (that’s all)

although the display quality is quite a compromise in the method

Does anyone know of a better material to use for this method other than Vellum paper? I find it washes out the picture quality. I have tried several other types of diffusers and they didnt work with Tinkerman’s silicone method, as the material would warp due to the Xylol. I had the same issue when applying this method to rosco. I am willing to pay more for a higher quality diffuser. I really find this method to be the easiest and was looking for some kind of projection surface that looked more professional than tracing paper. Any Ideas??

Ok, after running a series of tests, I have come to two conclusions

1) Silicone rolled on Rosco works VERY POORLY.
2) Tracing Paper works REMARKABLY WELL.

Expanding on my conclusions:

1) I’ve tried several tests with a variety of layers and thinner/silicone ratios. When GE Silicone is rolled on Rosco, the best mix ratio is about 1:2 (thinner:silicone), and the optimum number of layers is about 4-5. Any more layers deteriorate signal strength (blob brightness), and any thinner may result in “sticky trails”. But Rosco still works very, very poorly as a compliant surface. Why? Because the dark, matte Rosco absorbs infrared. I suspected this when I realized that Tinkerman is getting great results with his white (i.e. reflective) vellum.
To test my hypothesis, I bought the opposite material: some cheap, WHITE, and GLOSSY material.... Namely: Tracing paper (buy at any arts store).

2) Standard tracing paper, rolled with 3-4 layers of GE Silicone with the same ratio (1:2 of thinner:silicone), produced VERY BRIGHT and SENSITIVE blobs. Try it out, the results are very good compared to what I’ve been getting (i.e. the signals are even brighter than when I touch with my fingers directly on the acrylic).

The only issue with the cheap tracing paper is that it is sensitive to damage. However, overlaying the tracing paper with the Rosco and touching the Rosco (propogating the touch through the tracing paper) worked well enough in my case.

If you are committed to using Rosco, I suggest someone try this out:
1) Prime the Rosco surface with a coat of highly infrared-reflective layer (some sort’ve spray I think you can buy at car shops). We’ll call this the magic coating
2) Coat 3-5 layers of Silicone on top of the primed Rosco.
3) Test it out! And let us know of any good news.

-digitally404

Hello guys. I’ve tried with tracing paper rolled with ordinary white and transparent silicone with thinkerman metod and it runs perfectly. Only a layer without thinner works very well, but it’s difficult to roll it uniformly. If you use some thinner like toluen you obtain the same result and you can roll it easily. one layer works well, but I’ll try to roll two and three layer in this method. If you put rosco ontop this tracing paper with silicone it doesn’t disturb the effect. Early I’ll put a video demo. I haven’t tried roll with silicone rosco, but I’ll try it also with a small sample what I ordered to Rosco.com

Tinkerman:

It’s great!

But I have a question, why did you use silicone 1, not silicone 2 ?

Today I went to the decoration shop, the seller told me that silicone 1 is acidic, it has a terrible smell, and silicone 2 is neutral, it has no smell nearly, but more expensive.