2 of 5
2
Windows Kinect Driver/SDK - Xbox NUI Audio, NUI Camera, NUI Motor and Accelerometer
Posted: 09 November 2010 01:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
Avatar
Rank
Joined  2009-02-25
Total Posts:  25
New Member

Firstly, this is awesome that it’s already hacked for windows, and potentially for linux, osx etc. I think it’s understandable to want compensation for efforts, even in the order of $10K. But is chipin really the way to do it? What if I pay in $100 and it doesn’t reach the $10K target, so nothing is released? What happens to my (and everyone elses) contributions? Wouldn’t something like a kickstarter fund be a bit more fair and inviting?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 November 2010 01:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
Rank
Joined  2010-11-09
Total Posts:  3
New Member
memo - 09 November 2010 01:00 PM

Firstly, this is awesome that it’s already hacked for windows, and potentially for linux, osx etc. I think it’s understandable to want compensation for efforts, even in the order of $10K. But is chipin really the way to do it? What if I pay in $100 and it doesn’t reach the $10K target, so nothing is released? What happens to my (and everyone elses) contributions? Wouldn’t something like a kickstarter fund be a bit more fair and inviting?

so far they’ve edited our comment without saying why and also added things we did not say. if that’s how their effort is going to be run we wouldn’t trust any funds with them, they’ll need to be a lot of more transparent and open if they’re going to do this.

we (adafruit) are starting out with $3k if and when it makes sense to add more funds or use services like kickstarter we will - and when and if we do this we’ll be completely open and transparent as to what’s going on.

the bounty that we have is not to compensate people, it’s to encourage the sharing of information - the bounty is just a gesture, we don’t think a $10k “fee” is good for an open source project - just our opinion, we’re thrilled there is enough interested that there might be 2 bounties, good luck to everyone smile

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 November 2010 01:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
Rank
Joined  2010-11-08
Total Posts:  13
New Member

Hi all would love to see everyone work together. 

The bounty is fantastic and the first person who releases opensource code deserves to get it and the team at adafruit are very generous for making this offer.

I think its fair that AlexP is allowed to spend a short time trying to generate some funding to help pay for some of the effort his team have put in so far and into the future. Looking at the list of projects he has contributed to date in this space this is certainly warranted. 

The work Joshb is doing setting up the community to develop the drivers and write software for openkinect is tremendous and we all know how powerful a groundswell of passionate coders are. 

The way I would hope this ends up

1) AlexP tries to hit his target for a short perod of time
2) AlexP releases the code and adafruit reviews it and pays AlexP
3) Josh community and Alex and Libkinect and everyone else work on a single project.

#perfectworld

Nink

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 November 2010 01:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Joined  2006-11-09
Total Posts:  1499
Administrator

@adafruit - Regarding edit of your first post updates; sorry it was more a quick response to seeing a full email discussion and email addresses (There were no edits to your comment outside removing any email addresses)… and I have updated the post with my initial request and moved two replies on the topic.

@Memo Yes however I am sure AlexP will transparent as possible on the projects developments and this is a very interesting crowd sourcing concept… and overall really helps out in bringing attention to open hardware movement.

@Nink I hope so too! smile

 Signature 

~

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 November 2010 01:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
Avatar
Rank
Joined  2009-07-07
Total Posts:  27
New Member

Alex, I’m glad to see that you’ve been able to interface to the Kinect, and I’m super excited that you’re interested in helping more people work with this device.

I don’t like that you’re expecting a $10k fee for sharing this, though.

I understand the desire to put a lot of work into making something usable, well documented, and complete—and that it takes time and money to make that happen. But I don’t think taking up to $10k from people with no strings attached is a good way to do this.

What would be great is if you released what you have now, accept the Adafruit bounty, and use the publicity surrounding that to market CL and your continued efforts at developing the code base. Doing a Kickstarter towards a specific goal (i.e., having an API with specific features) would be a great way to support that effort. Or, just accepting donations without a specific monetary goal would be nice.

Anyway, I’m grateful for all the work you’ve put into the PS3Eye and I’m looking forward to Kinect drivers—keep up the great work!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 November 2010 01:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
Rank
Joined  2007-01-19
Total Posts:  1
New Member

Hey AlexP & co

The progress is great!

I think you need greater transparency for this funding otherwise people are going to get very annoyed and you might get a community backlash.  Its clear from the comments on the initial Adafruit blog bounty post that lots of people would be willing to put some money into this.

However, is chipin the right way to do this?

With Kickstarter you set the target, people donate, and the money only goes to you if the target has been reached.  With Chipin you get the money regardless I believe (straight from paypal).  You could argue that if you receive $9000 (therefore not enough to release the source) covers your time for making the drivers. However the community are funding the release of the source code from their view, so will get annoyed by this.

I think you’d get a lot more supporters if this was clear and what happens if you don’t reach the target.

Also, will you continue to support and improve it once the source has been released?

Keep at it,

Chris

 Signature 

http://www.chrisoshea.org

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 November 2010 02:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
Rank
Joined  2010-11-08
Total Posts:  13
New Member

And now it gets interesting a libkinect fork is now out of the starting gates. The race is on http://bit.ly/bfEf3G

Who’s code will be released first and what about the stealth folks......

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 November 2010 03:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRank
Joined  2007-04-08
Total Posts:  2539
Dedicated

If you’re interested in doing this for community at large, we would love to have you join us at http://groups.google.com/group/openkinect/ (http://nuigroup.com/forums/viewthread/11172/) where we have more than 80 people in 3 days looking for a truly open solution, not for the money - but for the benefit of the community at large. An open-source driver is the only transparent solution in terms of mass community benefit. We’d love to have you, even if it’s just for support. Community FTW!

 Signature 

MTmini, MTbiggie, & Audiotouch creator & Community Core Vision Co-founder

Follow on:
My Blog | Facebook | Twitter | Youtube

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 November 2010 03:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Joined  2006-11-09
Total Posts:  1499
Administrator

@chriso/adafruit/memo I agree 100% on the Kickstarter service, it is a much better solution for these efforts.

Update -

- Moderators and myself will work to assure project progress and updates are transparent and available.
- The NUI Group Community has been funded for 3 years by Google’s GSoC events and has consistently contributed to many open source projects CCV/CCA/Touchlib/MT4J/PyMT and more… (http://nuicode.com/projects)
- We highly respect the open communities and open source developments and an example of our character is highlighted by the NUI Group being advertisement free since 2006 with over 12 million pages/downloads served.
- As Alex has contributed a great deal to our community contributing back helps open source grow.

I believe this effort has a much larger impact than just a Kinect Driver… Alex is attempting new ideas with the goal being a well designed solution and an ongoing project for the open community to share.

 Signature 

~

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 November 2010 05:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
Avatar
RankRankRank
Joined  2008-05-08
Total Posts:  342
Sr. Member

First of all I’d like to thank everybody for great support.
Initially I have chosen Chipin as I thought it was the appropriate solution for the project. However as some of you mentioned the Kickstarter seems to be a better alternative. I am in the process of switching to Kickstarter and will deduct any funds already contributed via Chipin.

What I am trying to do here is I’m attempting a new concept (crowd-sourcing open development).
Some of you think that the goal of 10k is too high, but let me assure you that beside the initial effort spent analyzing the device and writing the working code, designing a usable generic Kinect API and documentation, maintaining the code and continuing development, as well as making sure that we have the professional grade quality driver is very time consuming and does come with the price tag attached.

As I did it in the past with PS3Eye, my goal here is not to just make a barely working “opensource” driver but to create a professional grade Kinect driver solution for the the open source community that will be used by the community for the robotics, research, education, etc.
Whether this will be an open sourced project or not, will depend on community support in which I have full faith.

Looking forward to your comments and ideas.

AlexP

 Signature 

Computing is not about computers any more.  It is about living!

Code Laboratories
CL Studio Live - Video like never before
CL Eye Platform SDK

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 November 2010 06:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
Rank
Joined  2010-11-09
Total Posts:  1
New Member

Hey mates,

AlexP did, in fact, release the Windows Driver for the PS3 Eye however it is not under an BSD / LGPL / MIT license.

Adafruit is aiming for the BSD / LGPL / MIT license? 

If you look how AlexP developed the PS3 Eye Drivers; note that he sells assignable licenses per driver install per computer if you use his PS3 SDK.
Since his driver seems to be practically finished for the Kinect, his requested $10,000 would build on software he will charge to use, and the driver wouldn’t even have an LGPL / MIT license.

I do not mean to attack AlexP, rather to clarify the terms of his development. AlexP is the man; he is extremely talented and offers a phenomenally cheap price on his software.  I just want everyone to know that a donation to this particular Kinect project will not be towards LGPL / MIT / BSD released code, but rather a well-designed, commercial product.

Cheers,
Luke

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 November 2010 06:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Joined  2006-11-09
Total Posts:  1499
Administrator

@lukasz I’m not sure you read completely.. the purpose of the fund is to raise money to get a really solid open source driver created as the original post states.

upon the completion of the fund we will release our code with an open source license

Last time I talked with Alex he noted MIT as it is fully open for both commercial and non-commercial use.

A small example of how this fund helps out is by supporting the servers/bandwidth we have used in the past 3 days over the first Kinect updates.  Beyond that as you can see by how fast this goal was achieved, Alex, myself and the NUI Group are all extremely passionate about having open solutions available. Projects, traffic and comments all must flow for it does not matter who “wins” these challenges, as long as the community benefits as a whole… a trait in which we have fostered since our inception.

As for the PS3 Driver you seem to forget that Alex’s PS3 Eye Driver, APIs and SDK are all 100% free and he only asks for small fee if using more than 2 cameras in commercial projects. Which is more than fair considering it has helped millions of people worldwide use an other wise unsupported device (PS3 Eye) on Windows… many of which that can or choose not to compile the code.

This much more than just raising money to “pay for a driver"… its about people believing in the open source movement enough to invest into it. I do hope at end of day we can all work together in bringing the potential of the Kinect to all platforms however it is going to cost a whole lot more than 10k to get anywhere near what Microsoft offers which comes only when developed in union.

After some rest I’ll add a poll to this thread and see if we can get gather some more feedback… please let me know if you have any ideas for poll questions or comments

 Signature 

~

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 November 2010 06:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
Avatar
Rank
Joined  2009-07-07
Total Posts:  27
New Member
Christian Moore - 09 November 2010 06:48 PM

its about people believing in the open source movement enough to invest into it.

And one way people invest in open source is by donating their time and sharing insight and resources with each other.

(Not to argue with what you’re saying, just adding to it.)

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 November 2010 07:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
Avatar
RankRank
Joined  2009-09-12
Total Posts:  121
Member

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-20021836-52.html

looks like a challenge, how far has this come alex?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 November 2010 07:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Joined  2006-11-09
Total Posts:  1499
Administrator

@kyle

And one way people invest in open source is by donating their time and sharing insight and resources with each other.

I agree and have experienced/enjoyed the open processes and truly believe in the power of community… developing the NUI Group for almost 5 years no monitory gain (x<0) has been a difficult challenge but I will never stop doing it because I know the future of NUIs relies on us working together to succeed. That being said know we support all open source Kinect efforts and wish the best to everyone involved.

 Signature 

~

Profile
 
 
   
2 of 5
2