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My rear DI multitouch table project
Posted: 02 June 2008 03:42 AM   [ Ignore ]
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Hey there, I’ve been working on a multitouch table now and it’s getting closer and closer to the endgrin
Thought I would put some pics or vids of my setup sometime the next days and let you see, but I have to warn you, I am no expertgrin
I have just read these forums carefully and tried my best. The things I’m missing is the IR emitters and the Projection surface/diffuser.
I’m using normal glass now, but read somewhere that frosted glass is good in a rear DI setup since it keeps the light from the projector to reflect in the glass and let the camera see it. My current setup is going to project a 70cm or about 28” display. Not to big, but I wanted it as a table in my living room so I needed it to be kinda smallgrin

My setup is using:
Hitachi CP RX70 - LCD projector Resolution - 1024 x 768 LCD £366.98
http://www.pcwb.com/catalogue/item/HITPR447

Xbox 360 Camera modified without IR filter

Normal, but very thin mirror. (Minimum to none problem with ghosting)

4mm Frosted glass

14 x 0,5W IR emitters. (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4669)

Computer setup is my gaming pc atm:
Core 2 Duo 3Ghz
8800 GTS 640Mb
4Gb Memory
Windows Vista 64bit

Things I’m wondering about:

1) Are these IR emitters good enough?
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4669

2) What glass is best and what projection surface/diffuser is good to use.
I live in Norway, where we don’t have any resellers of Rosco Grey, but I may buy it from USA.

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Posted: 02 June 2008 07:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Hey there!

For question 1) I tried one of these to see what kind of light it would emit and it was OK, however for my setup I’d needed around 4 (1 in each corner and pretty close to the screen too (maybe more!). It would take some fiddling but it’s do-able due to the wide angle of emission. There’s more info on my setup in my blog.

Question 2) I’m using a standard piece of 4mm glass with a frosted (sandblasted) side for my diffuser. There are lost of DIY options like films you can bond to the glass to create the diffuser if you can’t get Rosco. See here for an example of window film you can pick up from a lot of different window/glass manufacturers. (This one is in London, but you get the idea tongue wink )

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Posted: 02 June 2008 08:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Okey, I’ve just bought 20 just in case:p But I won’t use all then I guess. But as you say, they have a nice wide angle of emission so they should work greatgrin

As for the glass I’m having a hard time choosing. Normal 4-6mm frosted glass or is there frosted glass on only 1 side? The glass shop also told me about this non reflective glass. Is that something that’s relative? Since I hear people are having trouble with the light from the projector or IR light reflects at the bottom of the glass and throws off the IR camera? All hints are much appreciatedwink

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Posted: 02 June 2008 08:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Haha for 3 dollars something they’re cheap enough to buy a lot at once. tongue wink

Yeah my piece of glass is normal with one side frosted. I face this frosted side down so that the projector doesn’t create hotsports. (If you place anything shinny on the side that faces the projector you’ll have hotspot problems, which is why most are using a diffuser on the projector side of the acrylic/glass.) Non-reflective glass???? Do you have more info?

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Posted: 02 June 2008 10:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Alright, I understand grin

I really don’t have much information other than what I saw at the glass shop and what he told me. I did some digging on the web though, and found that it is commonly used in art galleries and such.
The guy at the shop said that they are somewhat more expensive than frosted glass, but affordablegrin And it basically reflects minimal light. If you figure out some more, please tell me.
But it looked amazing though, but I don’t know how good it will work in this context?

Found some pictures on google:

glass.jpg
Stopsol_Dark_Blue.jpg

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Posted: 20 June 2008 03:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Okey, time for a new postgrin

I’ve finally moved my project from the garage to indoor. There is still alot of work to go, but I’m getting there.
I’m not pleased with the looks of my table yet, but I’m working on that too.. Any suggestions are welcome, what so evergrin

What is done:
- The frame is built and completed. Used a normal living room tableplate for the top.
- Used 4mm frosted glass which I fitted into the top plate.
- Placed a normal thin mirror at the bottom of the case.
- The projector is placed almost vertically pointing down to a mirror and then projected to the frosted glass. (The idea was that the less angle I have on the mirror, the less “ghosting” I would get)
- Managed to make som kind of frame to put my IR emitters on. These are now running on something called the Ball300 which can give 300mA and a changable volt from 1,5v to 12v. Currently it’s on 1,5v.
- I have a Xbox Live Vision camera, which is modified to see IR. It now has 1 piece of floppy disk film in it.
- The top plate is made so that it can be opened quickly if some changes has to be done.
- And last I have 2 x 120mm fans. I blowing in fresh wind at the lens area of the projector and the other one blowing heat from the projector out of the box.
- The projected image is around 26” I think..

What is going to be done:
- The top table is going to get more dark brown I think. It just doesn’t go well with the box itself. Any ideas are welcomegrin Maybe I’ll even cut it so that it is as big as the box itself?
- The glass is going to have some borders, probobly black to cover up the wood under it.
- The computer inside isn’t supposed to be there:p
- As of now, the webcam doesn’t see the entire screen, so I have to use a mirror or something.
- Some black filter or something infront of the fans. This way they don’t show that much..

Problems or questions:
- When I’m trying to calibrate the touchlib I have the problem that my palm is showing. I’ll post a pic of that latergrin But any ideas why? I’ve tried to change the values all over but I’m no expert so maybe there are some secret tricks I don’t know about?
- The IR light isn’t emitted evenly, but that’s just a matter or time and trying.
- Anyone that can tell me if I’m giving my IR-emitters the right amount of v/mA/W? I’m no electrician, so any help would be appreciated. The leds themselves are 0,5W
- At the cornes of the box I’m going to use.. (I can’t remember the english word for it, but here is an example: 100612-Smartlist-Hjørnelist_t2007_10_24_16_36_22_q90_f9_115x101.jpg This is not the one I’m gonna use though:p)

That’s it for nowgrin

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HPIM1636.JPGHPIM1645.JPG
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Posted: 20 June 2008 08:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Looks good. I like the set up. I can’t wait to see some pics and videos of it in action!

for your leds i would use this site http://led.linear1.org/led.wiz but i don’t know if that will help with the leds you bought.

Keep up the good work!

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Posted: 29 June 2008 07:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Just a small update with a video of the smoke demo.. So that you can see the table in action. Btw, any of you got any pointers in improving the performance? Or is it just the fact that it’s just a “demo”? I’m also in the works of doing some beauty changesgrin

And I just have to say, a BIG thanks to all you at nuigroup for providing me with the information to build my own mt table!! I’m very grateful grin You guys rock!

Btw, now I have some new questions:D haha..

1: I’m having trouble getting the .swf files coming with the touchlib package to work. I can open them and all, but I get no reaction what so ever. I have run the OSC and FLOSC files so shouldn’t be that. Would be so sweet to test out the photo app.
2: How or where do I tell the photo app where the pictures I want to view are?

That all for know, thanks..

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Posted: 30 June 2008 09:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Not bad , you should try alexp’s moded touchlib , that might give you some better performance.

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Posted: 30 June 2008 10:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Thanks for the tip, I will try it out tonightsmile

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Posted: 06 July 2008 07:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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I feel like I’ve gotten the IR light emitted evenly across the screen now, and everything is coming together. Can’t wait for Lux to come out and I can start testing my table for realsmile Below is 2 videos, 1 of the lights from the IR emitters under the table, shown with the nightmode of my Sony handycan, Second is a test from the Media App that’s out there. As you see I have some issues getting reaction, especially under movement. I’m not quite sure what the reason for this is but I’m grateful for any help. It sometimes kinda feel more like the things I’m touching is laggin too.

Also, the NUI group logo is coming on the side of the table to help promote the community! Really thankful for all the help you have given me, and hope I can contribute back somehow!smile

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Posted: 06 July 2008 11:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Good work your table looks awesome....  smile
The MediaApp looks good wink Just one question, is delay in input detection thats occurring in MediaApp clip only occurring in the the MediaApp or is it occurring in all flash based apps that you are testing…

Taha

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Posted: 07 July 2008 02:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Taha - 06 July 2008 11:58 PM

Good work your table looks awesome....  smile
The MediaApp looks good wink Just one question, is delay in input detection thats occurring in MediaApp clip only occurring in the the MediaApp or is it occurring in all flash based apps that you are testing…

Taha

Thanks Tahasmile I’m just a humble newbie in the multitouch community… yet!

When using flash apps such as Smoke demo showed in the video further up on the thread it seems more smooth. But when I think about it, it seems that I’m having the problem I tried to describe in more flash apps. Maybe not as much, but it’s there I think. It’s seems like it can’t process the movement somehow? The strange part is that my blobs are bright and clear, and I’m not having any problems seeing them while calibrating.

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Posted: 07 July 2008 02:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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umm try reducing the resolution of the camera to 320x240 it will decrease cpu load as well as increase the fps of the xbox cam to 60fps that should help
and have you tried the speed fix suggested by AlexP for touchlib that will help heaps as well.

Taha

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Posted: 07 July 2008 02:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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I actually think I am using that resolution at the Media App test. But didn’t use the speed fix by AlexP so will try that when I get home today. Thanks Tahasmile

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Posted: 07 July 2008 06:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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You should also post a video of your tochlib config screen and your fingers going over the surface , I think the problem is in the way you configured your display.

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