Anyone have any thoughts on NOR_/D’s touchkit? (http://nortd.com/touchkit/ and http://nortd.com/touchkit/faq.html)

The touchkit is based on FTIR. You don’t need to use their provided software API of course - I plan on using touchlib and one of the ready made frameworks (MultiTouchVista, MultiTouchFramework, etc).

It looks like I’ll make the purchase (on company’s dime, of course , but I would like some feedback if anyone has used this yet.

They advertise the fully assembled touchkit FTIR display at $1550 USD. Any opinions on the value of this? i.e.: does the cost reasonably reflect the cost of the parts and labor required to build a FTIR display your self?

well if thats with the projector than the price is fair… but if it doesn’t include the projector then the price is ridiculous, I’ve spent around $400 on my table without the projector… but i’m building mine my self. if i got the table (the wooden part not the electronics) build it would cost me some where around $350~500 + the electronics and what not rite now for $400 i’ve build the frame of my table and gotten all the electronics and screen done. for around $800 ~ a $1000 you could build your table with the projector.

Taha

price does not include projector. I still find it a decent option to quickly dive into the exploration of multi-touch software, without having to spend time on the construction.

Have their prices gone up since they were first announced, I thought they were bit cheaper.

For the money, you’re getting a screen, projection surface, IR camera, LEDs and LED assembly.  Which is only the very basics of a working screen.  I guess the question is how much is your time worth?

I would really want a nice frame from a pre-fab kit (that included a solution for mirrors and projector alignment).  Seem a bit pointless selling only the screen as the people who will buy the premade screens probably arent the people who want to physically build a quality frame.  It says “schematics” are included, I wonder if that include details on how to build a frame, camera mount, mirror and projector setup?

We also don’t know how well the screen performs, is it zero touch with some kind of compliant surface, or are you touching the bare acrylic?

Yeah like Joobs said “how much is your time worth"… if you or your company plans to market individual software then this could be a useful device, a bit pricey but useful because then you wont have to go through the hassle to fabricate an entire setup… but if your company plans to market complete solutions then i suggest you take the time to develop a custom table the information you learn by constructing the table is invaluable. and in the long run it’ll save you time and money.

Taha

Joobs - 18 June 2008 11:34 PM

Have their prices gone up since they were first announced, I thought they were bit cheaper.

yeah I guess they have gone up. I too remember the price being a bit cheaper.

For the money, you’re getting a screen, projection surface, IR camera, LEDs and LED assembly.  Which is only the very basics of a working screen.

Only the basics of a working screen? Seems that the kit is the core of a multi-touch display and just the encasement is missing. No?

I guess the question is how much is your time worth?

Yeah, I guess it all boils down to this question.. This and how much you have available.

It says “schematics” are included, I wonder if that include details on how to build a frame, camera mount, mirror and projector setup?

I asked for some details on the schematics provided and they said that it details the different approaches for encasements, and also a simple set up where the display is hung from the ceiling and the projector and camera is positioned behind the display. They say that this is probably the easiest way to set the display up to get started.

We also don’t know how well the screen performs, is it zero touch with some kind of compliant surface, or are you touching the bare acrylic?

Good question. I will make an inquiry.

Taha - 19 June 2008 03:16 AM

Yeah like Joobs said “how much is your time worth"…

Agreed. basically I have a finite amount of time to perform this investigation (10-15 days max), so I need to maximize the time spent with the display.

but if your company plans to market complete solutions then i suggest you take the time to develop a custom table b]the information you learn by constructing the table is invaluable. and in the long run it’ll save you time and money.

Can’t argue that. Well I pitched the purchase as a way we can quickly get started in the investigation of MT solutions. If we decide that there is further business opportunities to persue, then that’s where I see us making our own display as part of a full R&D proposal.

I guess someone in this community has to be a guinea pig and evaluate this display. I will be happy to do so

the screen we ship with the kit is currently set with an aspect ratio of 3:2 and is about 27” x 18” in size.

There shouldn’t be a problem finding a projector that can support a resoltuion in the 3:2 aspect ratio, right?

I’d recomend you build your own , it’s really not that hard if you have the money.
DI would be the better choice for you if you don’t really have the time , the CUBIT aka NOR/D ones in my opinion are scams.
They charge 1500$ just for components that you could get for 3-4$?
I’d suggest you go buy some IR Iluminators , Tracing Paper , Glass or Acrylic and a decent projector , and build yourself a DI based table.
The final result will be better than the one you can buy from this guys , and you’ll also have fiducial tracking as a bonus.

3:2? I’ve never even heard of a 3:2 projector....  but i guess you can use a normal 3:4 projector or get a fuller picture on the screen with the use of a wide screen projector. My advice do your research before buying this thing it looks a little shady now…

Taha

Thanks for your opinions guys. I will definitely check into the possibility of building my own display.

Vlado - 19 June 2008 10:22 AM

I’d suggest you go buy some IR Iluminators , Tracing Paper , Glass or Acrylic and a decent projector , and build yourself a DI based table.The final result will be better than the one you can buy from this guys , and you’ll also have fiducial tracking as a bonus.

I can find many links to excellent caliber tutorials on how to build FTIR displays, but not so much for DI. Any suggestions?

In the showcase thread there are alot of build logs of both FTIR and DI.
But basicaly with DI you have IR light bombarding the screen from behind with IR light , and when you touch it , a shadow is created around the tip of your finger.
Most people use IR Iluminators , you can buy them online (Target has them I belive ... I’m not from America..)
PM Tim Roth and check his posts , he built some awesome DI based tables.

This thread http://nuigroup.com/forums/viewthread/1982/ <---- should help you understanding the principles.
There is alot of material in this forum , build logs , showcases , sugestions , just use digg trough the 8 pages of showcase , it shouldn’t take more than 2-3 hours , but once your finished you should know more about multitouch than you’ll ever need ).

Cheers and Good Luck with your project.

Also on another note, I subsribed to there mailing list, with a promise of software to download.  Today i recieved an email which just fobbed me of with a link to the openframeworks apps.  not to bitch but i did think it was a bit missleading!  I suppose only time will tell perhaps there software will be good.  Openframeworks sure is!

I received the same email today too.

They have stopped responding to my questions that I raised - questions about the compliant surface, the camera used, etc. So until they respond I’m not going with the purchase. Until then, I am continuing work on my own DI.

Don’t wanna flame, or start argument, so feel free to attribute the below to a lack of coffee.

I don’t think we should be wasting time bashing companies and others in the multi-touch world.

If you haven’t spent the 1500$ or whatever these guys are asking....and been ripped off --

If you haven’t used their product....and been disappointed—

Then you are not the best person to accuse them of being scammers or rip-off artists.

They may not be much more then some of the more competent modders on this forum,
But this company exists, they’ve gotten some news write ups and they have a product (of sorts).

If reflects poorly on us to evaluate, judge and condemn without much more then some random email exchanges,
where they stopped answering questions.

But unless you *actually* are a customer at what point is it ok for them to stop paying attention to you? I suspect after basically asking them to tell you everything about their product short of actually buying one, then you are pretty much at the limit of reasonable enquiry.

Either buy the kit and evaluate it properly and fairly, or don’t, but please let’s not start criticizing what we have little experience with.

I’m sorry though that their sales/communications skills seem to suck such wind that they are peeving interested and potential customers off.