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Minimum Projection Distance
Posted: 27 March 2008 12:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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I have been wondering how to shorten the throw distance as well.  Mirrors seem to be a way to do this, but what about taking the optics from an old projection TV?  I want to make a touch table that can lay flat, at an angle, or lay vertical for movie viewing.  In order to do this, I think it’s probably best to build an enclosure on the back side of the surface/viewing/touch area, keeping the projection unit as close as possible.  I’d also like to use an LCD with a Hi-Def resolution.  Anyone know if it’s possible?  I saw the thing like this in the Hardware section made by the University in Iowa, unfortunately the site is no longer available.

If anyone has tried this or has any ideas, my brother-in-law is giving us his old projection TV...I can get the parts...it’s the engineering that may be a little difficult.

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Posted: 09 May 2008 05:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Goob, that ‘multiple orientation’ idea is exactly what my design is, It needed to be shallow and on it’s own stand so it could serve as a flat table for multiple users, an angled desk for a single user, and vertical display for presentations. I’m using a 47"x 25” 16:9 screen size, and an optoma ep1690 projector...obvously 6’9” was a bit farther away than I wanted it to be...and even a single mirror bounce (3’5” distance) was unacceptable to me...so I ended up designing a 4 mirror folded beam box. The end result is only 22” deep including the projector. But it is not a construction project for the faint of heart. 1 one degree angular error in construction is a 2 degree error in image...and with 4 mirrors ya get 4 chances to screw it up wink

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Posted: 09 May 2008 12:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Hey trackzilla, any chance you could post some diagrams or pictures of your table?  I was considering using multiple mirrors, but I’m lazy…

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Posted: 11 May 2008 01:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Here is the side view with some basic dimensions & angles.

This view is with the view surface facing down ...so it could be larger on the computer screen...I suppose UP would’ve been an option too, but I guess that’s not how my brain works wink

Also coming soon will be a more comprehensive set of plans, like cut sheets to make the cabinet from one 48” x 96” sheet of material, and some other views.

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Posted: 11 May 2008 03:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Going slightly off topic, is anyone aware of any Mac software that let’s me trace light, to work out angles etc for mirrors?

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Posted: 11 May 2008 02:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Trackzilla - 11 May 2008 01:29 AM

Here is the side view with some basic dimensions & angles.

This view is with the view surface facing down ...so it could be larger on the computer screen...I suppose UP would’ve been an option too, but I guess that’s not how my brain works wink

Also coming soon will be a more comprehensive set of plans, like cut sheets to make the cabinet from one 48” x 96” sheet of material, and some other views.

Brilliant!  Thanks a million.  Does the camera get placed next to the projector lens?  Does this make mounting/calibration difficult?

Parker

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Posted: 11 May 2008 07:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Here’s how to use Autocad to model mirror use and beam folding in designing your box. If you can accurately

build what you draw, this method will create absolutely NO keystoning of your projected image.

Autocad and Google Sketchup (free!) both contain a mirror fuction that will allow you to create the pyramid of

your projector’s beam and the fold it at your mirror points to create and then re-measure your actual beam and

box.
My example is a touch more invovled than most as I am using 4 mirrors to spin the original beam more than 360

degrees and reduce a 72” beam path to a 22” depth including the projector. The same method described here will

work for fewer mirrors (and more if you have truly lost your mind).

For start, you will need a few existing and defined dimensions: 1)the desired display size 2)the projection

distance for your projector to create this display size 3) your projector’s offset angle (or offset distance at

the projection distance). Try this handy calculator:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-EP1690-projection-calculator-pro.htm
It shows display distances for a variety of projectors, but you will have to find out your projector’s offset

(try your manufacturer’s website).

Now you will make a drawing similar to this:

947916f05a.jpg

The projector is red, projection distance is white, Offset is yellow, and screen vertical size is magenta.

those dimensions allow you to draw and measure the two blue lines which are your actual projection beam’s side

view. This blue/blue/magenta triangle is the actual triangle we will be folding. You will never need the offset

and projection distance again in your model, so erase them wink

Throughout the rest of these 2D images, yellow will represent mirrors, light blue will be the top beam line,

dark blue will be the bottom beam line, new lines generated will be green until their next drawing.

At this stage I found it handy to make a paper scale model of the beam triangle so I could play with folding it

in different ways. As long as the paper can fold that way, and the entire line of a fold is outside of the next

section of the beam (can’t have a mirror blockin our view can we?), it is a viable fold point.

When I find a fold pattern that makes me happy, I simply hold the paper model up against the monitor to draw in

my mirrors at the appropriate points on the beam triangle. Save this, then copy the whole thing to somewhere

else on your drawing. You can now create a side view by folding your beam with the mirror function at the

mirror points, and drawing in the rest of your box materials as you like.
I turned mine around so the projection surface was on the bottom of the drawing so it would display larger on

your monitor...yielding something that looks like a ‘Doomsday Button” when viewed as a thumbnail wink

th.7334782830.jpg

This third picture shows how to create the top and bottom horizontal beam dimensions, and get the rest of your

mirror sizes from your first drawing, instructions follow.

ef2e9a31c3.jpg

Make an extension line (line1) from your projection surface straight up some convenient small distance. Now

extend that line by half the distance of your horizontal screen size, and then draw the other half of the

screen size. Now delete line1...and you have a horizontal screen dimension with a handy centerpoint neatly in

line with your vertical screen from the first steps.
Copy your top beam line with a base point where it joins vertical screen, paste it to the centerpoint of your

horizontal screen line, rotate it so that it is perpindicular to the screen line.
(My camera shares the bounce path of the projector, so I made a line of at the other end that allows the

camera’s view angle to start beside the projector by effectively widening the ‘origin point’ into a line and redid everything that follows correctly, the rest of this post is the projector only version).
Now close up the sides of the triangle (or trapezoid if you are sharing the bounce path), it is your top

horizontal beam, so bisect it with lines that are parallel to the screen where you have mirrors hitting the top

beam on your side view.

Repeat using the bottom beam line for your bottom horizontal beam view.

You can now get dimensions for all mirrors & distances, and if you are after the classic rectangular box, just

frame this in & you’re ready.

Still here? OK then...Here’s where I get less helpful.
This link is an XViD .avi view of my first model that shows the beam patterns and mirror placements.

http://rapidshare.com/files/114250743/mirrorz2agk.avi

Someone who actually UNDERSTANDS Autocad or sketchup is encouraged to rewrite this 3d part. This was my first

3D modeling project & I honestly don’t remember much other than a lot of cursing & the conceptual steps & order

I used. Here is what I did...as far as exactly how....? (Autocad’s ‘3Dalign’ function is your friend here,

Sketchup doubtless has a similar funtion & it’s probably easier)

Copy your whole bottom horizontal beam view...open a new 3D file, and paste it in.
Go back to your 2D, copy the whole side view beam drawing with a base point where the bottom beam and the

display line intersect.
Paste your side view onto the horizontal one in your 3D, with the base point at the centerline of the

horizontal one. Now align the vertical one so the whole centerline lines up correctly, and figure out how to

make it ‘stand-up’…
Now copy your top horizontal view with the center of the screen line as a base point, paste it onto the top of

your vertical line set, and again, align it.

Now use the 3D mirror funtion to fold the pyramid where you have mirrors.

I next skinned over the entire exterior with lovely triangles & trapezoids, and by selecting them , copying

them and pasting them into a 2D drawing, was able to create cut sheets for my exterior shell pieces...it worked

great when I made a cardboard mockup...which I destroyed before making pictures lol...but the final one is

being built slowly right now...pix, vids, and the cut sheets will follow this build.

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